Thanks robosquirrel, you are the man! I pulled this from his article on Knowledge. It is his third view of his philosophy.
Man—every man—is an end in himself, not the means to the ends of others. He must exist for his own sake, neither sacrificing himself to others nor sacrificing others to himself. The pursuit of his own rational self-interest and of his own happiness is the highest moral purpose of his life.
Before I rant, let me respond with wisdom beyond my intellect:
Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Corinthians 1 3:4-7
Okay, now. If he is a parent, then I couldn't be his kid because I'd be in a world of hurt not receiving attention because my dad's ideology does not permit him to acknowledge my existence. If I am a sick or needy individual I would fret often because I would be a liability to him and therefore expendable. If I am a criminal then I can have a field day with him because his ideology forces him to operate alone and one target is better to stop than two (unless you have the magic bullet).
There is that proverb, that "no man is an island, but to be a man; one must stand alone". Profound in that, yes, loved ones in a time of war can be liabilities, however, loved ones are who God created as a blessings to us. This view seems fatalistic. Sad, too. Yet, it makes him who he his and someone who needs an eHug.
I ask you all to eHug robosquirrel for me. Thanx!
Being a fan of objectivist thought, the "man being an end in and of himself" principle simply means that we do not exist as pickings for others, as sacrificial animals at the altar of others' incompetence. Need is not their claim ticket to the product of our hard work. Man exists to live, not to work for others.
ReplyDeleteIt is more of an economic and social theory than it is a shunning of emotion. People still love. They love their children, their parents, their friends, their spouses, etc. Not living your life for someone else does not preclude loving them.
It's too lengthy to really explain here. But if you've read Atlas Shrugged, it would probably clear it up a bit more.
thanks nicki, I'll check it out
ReplyDeleteNo prob. I've been a fan of Rand's work since freshman year of college. It's a good book, if you like lengthy dissertations on why socialism sucks ass. LOL
ReplyDeleteBy, the way -- just for fun, check this out:
http://spaces.msn.com/members/nickisasylum/Blog/cns!1pHMQk_4-JkuJ_le_eEjnKWw!286.entry
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ReplyDeleteAynRandian nonsense! Ughhh I cannot believe that some people take that statement seriously. Although some of her stuff I think is clever, other stuff is just ridiculous. Perhaps because objectivity is itself a subjective concept. I do not believe that true objectivity exists, although I try to be. Good post.
People who take that statement seriously are the ones who actually understand what it says.
ReplyDeleteDitto what Nicki said. I'm getting to Atlas Shrugged, still working on the Fountainhead (which I should be reading now!)
ReplyDeleteMahndisa: Not objectivity, "objectivism." I think there a difference in what you're saying and what is meant by the term. Objectivism is far from subjective. Check this out, if you can stomach it.
To be clear, you are quoting me quoting Ayn Rand, with whom I mostly agree. In her view, one should act in one's own best interests, without undermining yourself for the benefit of others or taking advantage of them. I think this would be a beautiful world if everyone could manage that. As far as my kids, well, my eight-year-old daughter doesn't live with me and my son hasn't been born yet. But when my daughter visits me or I visit her, I do my best to instill her with self-respect and self-sufficiency. It's difficult without being able to be a full-time parent.
She also said, To say "'I love you' one must first be able to say the 'I.'"
Also, “Love is an expression and assertion of self-esteem, a response to one's own values in the person of another. One gains a profoundly personal, selfish joy from the mere existence of the person one loves. It is one's own personal, selfish happiness that one seeks, earns, and derives from love.”
Finally, “That love is reverence, and worship, and glory, and the upward glance. Not a bandage for dirty sores. But they don't know it. Those who speak of love most promiscuously are the ones who've never felt it. They make some sort of feeble stew out of sympathy, compassion, comtempt, and general indifference, and they call it love. Once you've felt what it means to love as you and I know it - the total passion for the total height - you are unable of anything else.”
Wow, man, I want to experience that - I feel that I am moving in that direction. It's the ideal. The problem with Rand's philosophy is that in order for her ideal to be reached, everyone would need to be that way. As it is, when people meet someone like this, they consider that person arrogant, cold, even cruel... which is why I found it interesting you said, "Okay, now. If he is a parent, then I couldn't be his kid because I'd be in a world of hurt not receiving attention because my dad's ideology does not permit him to acknowledge my existence." That's hardly what that means.
As far as, "If I am a sick or needy individual I would fret often because I would be a liability to him and therefore expendable," well, not exactly. I would want to take care of you if you are someone I care about (don't take that the wrong way - as you can see, I am somewhat empathic!). If I don't know you or have no reason to take care of you, why would I do it? One must also wonder why you are sick or needy in the first place. Have you put yourself in this position by way of your own foolishness? Have you not acted in your own self-interest when you could've or should've? Why should I take care of someone who can't be bothered to take care of himself and survives on the charity of well-meaning suckers?
"If I am a criminal then I can have a field day with him because his ideology forces him to operate alone and one target is better to stop than two." Not at all. A person such as whom Ayn Rand describes attract people who appreciate his nature. I have one or two good friends, plenty of people I socialize and am friendly with, am happily married and have the love and support of my family - the feeling is mutual. You seem to think that such a person would hate mankind, when in fact it's just the opposite. The person who helps those who should help themselves to that own person's detriment, or uses others to further himself - that person hates mankind. Why else keep your fellow men from acheiving all that they could acheive and in a constant state of dependency? What is there for me to gain by keeping you from being a productive member of society?
Robo - as you haven't read Atlas Shrugged yet, I can give you this quote and have you think on it in a pure fashion, without having Rand's rhetoric to muddle the waters.
ReplyDeleteI swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.
This is, essentially, the crux of Objectivism. It's beautiful and simple. But many people either don't understand it and make it more complicated than it is, or they are biased by the "Oh, it's ANN Rand, so it must be crap" principle (and yes, I know a lot of those types. They even insist on mispronouncing Rand's name just to make the point.)
Maybe it's simple for me, because I grew up in Russia - same as Rand.
BTW - if you want a really good novel about what communism was and continues to be, read We the Living
This has been interesting reading, and I am including the comments. I do not feel intellectually equipped to enter into this discussion as I know absolutely next-to-nothing about any of the afore-mentioned books, having not read them. I suppose I have some reading to do!
ReplyDeleteBut go ahead and keep on talking over my head, perhaps I'll learn something! :)